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nascar teaming up with the nra, a bad idea. also, take this, north korea. >> i love him. i love the guy. he's awesome. >> dennis rodman's basketball diplomacy. dan rather, is this really what the world needs. and white house revelations. the bush 41 crying. the look inside the controversial church, picketing church's funerals. what one woman saw before they threw her out. this is "piers morgan tonight." there are stranger things in dennis rodman's mission to north korea. well, i assume there are stranger things.

i just can't offhand think of them. he told george stephanopoulos about his new best friend, kim jong-un. >> i don't condone what he does. as far as person to person, he's my friend. as far as what he does, deal with it. >> as someone who hypothetically is a murderer, who is your friend, is still a murderer. >> seriously, you know, i think that's what -- what i did, what i did, was history. was history. guess what. it's like we do over here in america, right? >> what i did was history. well, it's hardly a standard speak. but the fact remains dennis rodman is one of the very few americans to do any talking at all with the north koreans in the last few years. joining me now is a man who can sum this up pretty well. dan rather. dan, quite extraordinary incident. i can remember where i was when

elvis died. dennis rodman sitting there with the leader of north korea, talking about being his best friend, et cetera. amid all the comedic aspect of this, and those feeling affront by this guy, there is a serious point about raising awareness of north korea and having any kind of contact there. what do you make of it all? >> first of all, i think it's important we focus some attention on north korea. anything that gets some attention focused. this is one of two or three places in the world likely to be a third world war. high on the list. one tends to get when we had bad relations with the marxist, leninist china, diplomacy is the closest to this that i can see. i'm not suggesting it would work out that way. you remember people played ping-pong, had his comedy moments as well. but it led to a little bit of opening. now, with dennis rodman, i will

say that, look, i've been to goat ropings and space shots, i've been to antarctica and deepest africa. i've never seen anything quite like this. >> crazy as goat roping, my god. i did this "celebrity apprentice" with him, i went back in with donald trump's board room guys. he's very passionate. i'm sure he went out with the best of intentions. he's gone out with the team from vice media crew, members of the harlem globetrotters. doing a documentary for hbo, hbo and cnn. both owned by the same company, time warner. he seems to be taken aback by the outcry that's come his way, which may be a little naive. but i say this, as one heaps all this mockery on dennis rodman, i'm trying to say, if you live in the news, all over america today, that's not a bad thing. >> i agree it's not a bad thing, for the reason we discussed as we came on the air.

it at least gets people thinking about north korea. north korea is one of the strangest places on this or any other -- >> you west there in 2005. >> i did go there. and to churchill's old quote, it's a mystery wrapped in enigma. this we do have to understand, that china is the key to north korea. if there's to be peace in the region, over any length of time, china will be the key to that. i don't think most americans know that. so in the sense that dennis rodman going to have his picture taken with him, i agree with you that a certain naiveness comes into this. but terrible things have happened there. murder, the country's concentration camps, people starving, all of those things. dennis rodman was the, i think all-time rebounder in the nba. he can't be expected to know all of this. >> i find it oddly fascinating, kim jong-un is such a basketball fan. it humanizes him in a way he's never been humanized. we don't know much about this

guy. he inherited when his father died. we don't know almost anything about him. and suddenly dennis rodman is taking us into this guy's world. we've got extraordinarily footage. this is when he came out with rodman, the basketball stadium. it's like watching china back in the days of mao. he's a totalitarian state, yet there's a sort of, amid the naive ti, there's an openness about what rodman's done here, opening up perhaps the blog to get somebody in a more official capacity, a more sensitive capacity perhaps to do some proper talking with the north koreans. which has to be in the end the right way to go. >> i can hear in my mind's ear, people in the state department scoffing and laughing and saying, he doesn't know what he's talking about. but these types of small things, small acorn, if you will, literal oaks can grow. i'm not saying it will grow in this case.

by the way, i've been inside that stadium, and it's a sight to behold. 150,000 people or something. but we know this about the -- now the ruler of north korea, that he was educated outside the country. that's when he became a basketball fan. we knew before he ascended to this role that he was a big fan of basketball. and he knows who dennis rodman is. how many world leaders even know who dennis rodman is. he's also -- he loves movies, as did his father. his predecessor in this role. when one goes to north korea, even to this day, if you're even hoping for an interview, or get in the presence of the supreme leader, you're always advised, take along some really good new movies, and that will give you your best chance. >> dennis rodman's taking a lot of flack. i'm not defending him and i think he was very naive about the way it's played out. having said that, i think it is encouraging there is any dialogue with north korea. the more you know about this country, probably the better. >> i agree.

>> the sequestration, which is probably something even north korea doesn't understand. i found the events of last week incredibly dispiriting. the fact that america, this great superpower, has this demeaning political system here. >> no one wants to say it, and some can accuse me of being harsh in the language. but we have been parachuted into the valley of the stupid. the united states -- this is dumb. there's nothing smart about this. but i do think that americans need to see it now in the context, which is one of the more important contexts. each side is now running a political campaign for the next election. 2014 is what it's about. the republicans, they want to wreck the obama presidency, metaphorically they want his administration moved from lame duck to dead duck.

and they need to do well in the -- >> here's my point, though. they spent the last four years trying to wreck his last presidency. they openly admitted this. now they're into the wrecking ball again. everyone's trying to wreck each other. amid all this wrecking, is the wreckage of the american economy. >> well -- >> and the real people suffering are the american people. >> well, the big loser is the country. >> yeah. >> that each of them, they talk about what's good for their party, what's good for the reelection campaign and all that. we need the leaders -- how many times do we need to say it. whoever had the idea of saying all these people should be made to go see the movie "lincoln." >> i certainly agree. >> what's needed here is leadership. it will only take a few good men and women in each party to exercise to say, if they beat me in the next election, so be it, but i want to do what's best for the country. >> they're mocking someone like dennis rodman who at least went and talked to the other side. >> right.

>> in washington, they don't even talk to each other. i saw that john boehner and barack obama hadn't physically met since the middle of november. absolutely extraordinary. >> not in any sub tan tiff way. when you try to explain this to someone in china, or india, or somewhere in africa, or in russia, they say, you've got to be kiting me. the united states of america, the leader of the house doesn't talk seriously about the economy with the president? >> let's turn quickly to the george h.w. bush letters. all the best of george bush, my life and letters. fascinating book. it includes so many riveting snippets, where he has written either to his son or to other people about his son who, of course, then became president. what did you make of it when you pored through it? >> i wasn't surprised. i once or twice received a handwritten note from then president bush. look, he's well educated.

he writes well. he thinks pretty well. i wasn't surprised by any of it. if someone were to be critical, you could say, he wrote about a lot of things, but what you didn't see is writing about his son's decision to go into iraq. he had difficulty holding back because he wanted to lean in. but it was his son's time. but i think it shows a side of george bush, which serves him well. maybe one reason the book is out, of course. but this doesn't come as any surprise to anyone who had ever received a letter from him, or knew very much about him. >> this was shortly after september 11th, he spoke to his son right after the attacks. he said i talked to george and said as soon as he got back to washington, the better. he totally agreed with that. it's not easy to sit on the sidelines now and not make decisions or take actions. the unique position of being a father, watch your son become the president that you were, and sort of feeling even then slightly impotent. because -- >> more than slightly. as he described, he and mrs.

bush, barbara bush wept the night it was clear his son would become president. >> very moving. >> the most moving of the letters. with katrina, one has to believe, although he didn't say this directly in this letter, it was a mistake for president george bush not immediately to go back to washington. >> his father says, i'm really down about the way the president's been attacked. this is after katrina. over and over again being attacked. flying to louisiana on the way back to washington. and the snail-like pace of relief. my heart goes out to him. the critics do not know what's in 43's heart. of course he did, he's his father. i agree with you, that it's a father's sense, rather than probably a more pragmatic thing, which is actually the president made a number of big mistakes over katrina. >> i said go back to washington, i meant get ahold of this katrina situation. but anybody who is a father understands why he would leap to his defense, even within himself saying, look, i think he's made

a mistake here. he's got this great empathy and sympathy for his son. anybody who attacks his son, he sees as a personal attack on him. quite natural. >> this special you've got, about elderly abuse, quickly, what is it about? >> what it's about is the phenomenon of so many american seniors being preyed upon by international crooks, cowards, to take their money, with telemarketing and particularly with lotteries. i had an idea about this for years i've been hearing complaints. but now it turns out that in places like jamaica, and nigeria, in fact those two places particularly, that people use telephone techniques, telemarketing techniques, fake lottery techniques to dupe people for hundreds of millions of dollars, if not over $1 billion a year, it's pretty hard to find exact figures. what we've tried to do is do two things. one, inform people that if you have a senior in your family,

don't just assume that they're going to make the right decisions. and to get to older people, look, when somebody calls you and talks about you winning money or a chance to win money, hang up. >> it sounds too good to be true, it's a fascinating investigation. dan rather reports next tuesday, march the 12th, at 8:00 eastern on access tv. stay here, dan. we'll talk about, after the break, about this revolution that nascar is a sponsor of the nra. tobacco companies can't sponsor the races, but gun companies can. ♪

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option to be the sponsor for the april 13th nascar sprint cup series race at texas motor speedway. the event will be retitled nra 250 and serve as the first primetime saturday night event of the 2013 nascar sprint cup racing season. >> nascar putting the nra in the driver's seat. sponsoring next month's texas 500, which will now be known as the nra 500. the timing is no coincidence, as the country struggles with the issue of gun violence. we begin with rachel. a cynic in me would say, the nra has seized a moment when they need some good publicity out there and see this as a target rich environment perhaps for their core audience. >> certainly the marriage of these two organizations can't be a surprise to anybody. especially here where they give a rifle to the person who wins

the pole position. so obviously the association has been there for a long time. still, it is an interesting time. because nascar is trying to get more mainstream fans involved in the sport again. certainly that's why they were so excited danica patrick did well at daytona. you want to draw in the fans and you make the association with the nra. you have to wonder, are those mainstream fans going to want to sit down to their television sets on saturday night and watch the nra 500. >> in houston, texas, why is it a good idea? you can't have a tobacco company sponsoring this race, because presumably it's deemed bad for americans' health, but you can have the nra, which is basically funded by gun manufacturers. >> well, first of all, tell me what's bad about it. texans love guns. texans love fast cars. there's nothing wrong with

nascar. and they have been involved with the nra before. this is the first time the nra has stepped up to the sprint cup series which is the top league. there's nothing wrong with this, piers. i don't really understand anyone who would want to argue with the bill of rights, the first amendment and second amendment. they sort of go well together here. i don't really understand the fuss. tell me what your problem is. i don't get it. >> my problem is, i can't understand the difference between tobacco company not being allowed to sponsor this race because it's deemed bad for american health, and a gun company, which the nra is, which is funded predominantly by gun manufacturers, to sell more guns, i can't imagine that guns are better for americans' health than tobacco. >> i'm not going to argue, tobacco over guns. but the nra i think is not trying to sell guns, and they are supported by -- i'm a lifetime nra member myself.

so they're supported by citizens as well as gun manufacturers. this is making a statement about who we are. i know there was a car in a race recently devoted to sandy hook. i think that's a great thing, that i think it was darrell waltrip jr., i'm not sure of the driver. that's a wonderful thing. in texas, we can support and help and pray for the people who have been victims to gun crimes in our own state and other states. but here in texas, we understand that the nra is something that we can be proud to be a member of. let me tell you something, piers. when you were here, i enjoyed meeting you a few weeks ago here in texas, i said on finance and criminal justice, we're closing down prisons in texas, crime is down. people carrying guns in texas, concealed carry which we talked about on your last show, has a positive impact. i can assure you in chicago, where they have tight gun laws, they're not closing down jails, they're opening up jails. in texas we have 5,000 beds

freed up because crime is down in texas. so fast cars, guns, texas, it all works together. we're proud to be americans. we're proud of the first and second amendment and we will reach out, pray for to help the families of victims of crime anywhere. >> fast cars and guns. let's turn to tim. what is your reaction to that? fast cars and guns. >> this is completely disproportionate to have a single car at the daytona 500 for sandy hook relief, versus an entire race sponsored by the nra. i also -- i don't understand the association -- nascar is so much more infinitely popular than the nra. there are nascar fans all over the country, nascar fans in every political persuasion. the identification of nascar, i think even in texas with supporters of, i think, the nra's, what has become the nra's increasingly extreme stance on gun rights, is, i think, there's

just a huge contradiction there. >> let me ask on that point, dan rather, you like nascar. do you have a problem with this? >> i don't have a problem with it, to tell you quite honestly. i don't think anybody should blow a gasket about this. the nra, it's made up of a wide divergence of people. not everybody in the nra agrees with everything that the nra administration puts forward. one of the things that occurs to me, and forgive me, piers, but as a reporter you're always looking for the story behind the story. i ran into a chance meeting today with vice president joe biden, and he said to me, it's going to be tough to get these gun laws through. he said the nra, this is what he said, the nra is now beginning to back away from background checks. they put forward sort of a feeling well, maybe we can do some background checks. they're backing away. at the very time, if the vice president's correct, and i

assume that he is, that they're backing away on that, they have this big announcement getting all the publicity. >> they may not support universal background checks? >> yes. >> see, this is what i find so bloody offensive. and i'm sorry, i'll come to you. you can calm me down. but this is so cynical. you've got the nra coming up, backing this nascar race now. they want to sell more guns. the senator is thrilled about that. fast cars, guns, you're great. unless you're somebody shot by one. the nra is not even prepared to support universal background checks on gun sales. a sporting event that should know better, i think. >> it's a political thing, no question about that. >> it's political for them. but for nascar it's a business decision. this is a track that lost its sponsor. it was sponsored by samsung. they decided to pull their sponsorship. according to the head of the track, they had gotten offers from other companies. but they were not at the amount they were asking for. >> do we know what they paid the nra?

>> sponsorships go for between 1 merchandise -- $1 million and $3 million reportedly. they said we'll pay full price. on top of that, this is one of the largest tracks in the country, 190,000 people, seats for that at this event. nascar has said, and this event has said, we're going to use the nra roles to sell tickets. we expect nra members to come out in support of this event, because it is called the nra 500. >> let's take a quick break. i want to come back and carry on with this. because it's got me steaming, i've got to be honest with you. ® for their headaches. my name is sunshine and i have three beautiful girls. i like taking advil® for a headache. it nips it in the bud. and i can be that mommy that i want to be. ♪ [ male announcer ] take action. take advil®.

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like so many of these mass shootings, or the gun violence we see every single day on our streets, that amount to 34 on average gun murders every single day, there is a segment of our population that includes criminals and the dangerously mentally ill that should be prevented from having access to firearms. >> husband of gabrielle giffords, testifying about the neat for more background checks with gun sales.

back with us is dan patrick, and rachel nichols and dan rather. senator patrick, if i may. here's the deal with this race. there's going to be a lot of kids in that audience. a lot of young children. some may even be the same age of the children that died at sandy hook. what kind of message that this sends to their children, that their favorite sporting event that they see with the family maybe is sponsored by a gun lobbying group? >> you know, piers, you're a fine fellow. you just don't get it. there's nothing wrong with guns, and responsible gun ownership. and a lot of those young people that you're talking about who will go to the race, go also shooting with their mom and dad. i was talking to the camera person in the studio here. they went out shooting this weekend with their daughter. there's nothing wrong with this, piers. i know it's just foreign to you. but there's nothing wrong with responsible gun ownership. >> it's not foreign to me. i understand that when guns are

used properly by law-abiding rational people, then that is part of the american culture. the problem america has is there are so many criminals and mentally insane people getting their hands on guns and slaughtering other americans. that's my problem. >> that's all of our problem. no one supports that lifestyle. >> thank you, sir. dan rather, quickly, you know about this culture. you grew up in the culture. i don't get it apparently. i have the right to express some concern, that the nra basically are hijacking a great family sporting event in america. >> the phrase, don't get it, frankly, i think you get some of it. i think dan patrick gets some of it. the key phrase he used there was responsible gun ownership. responsible automobile drivers don't have any difficulty. what we try to do as best we can, pass some laws, put some regulations in that deal with the end irresponsible parts of the car drivers.

look, this is a case where, frankly, everybody needs to be kind of steady. feelings run high on all edges. there's a cultural divide here, some of it's rural versus urban, some of it's regional. we need to understand each other's point of view. and reach that point where you say, listen, we can disagree about 50 things. are there two or three things we can agree on, for example background checks. >> you're telling me they're backing down on the background checks? rachel, tell me about this. the race we broadcast on fox, what are the repercussions and possible implications of fox and nra? >> the nra has had so many controversial ads lately. and gunmakers aren't allowed to broadcast. this is something the networks do themselves. they basically decided they're not going to air ads from gunmakers. and then in comcast, basically cable, then recently took this up as well. it's been a matter of great controversy over when these ads

will run, who is going to run them, who decided not to run them. part of the sponsorship deal is at least once an hour the broadcaster has to mention the name of the sponsor. so all of a sudden this is in some ways an end around the nra who has had controversial ads, gunmakers not being allowed to advertise guns on fox usually the nra name will be out there with some regularity during the broadcast. and this really hasn't happened before in this scenario. because there's never been this high-profile athletic event sponsored by the nra. >> this is my problem again. you're going to have the nra getting all this ad time and they only have one real modus operandi. wayne wants to sell more guns. big funders, big donors, not having any problem with their currently escalating, roaring sales in guns and ammunition. >> right. and there's a history here in terms of television advertising and nascar. so nascar, for years, the sprint

cup, which is the series that this race is in, most people probably know it as the winston cup, sponsored by reynolds. it was around the earlier laws banning the sale of tobacco, sale of cigarettes. again, you would get the brand, or the name of the sponsor mentioned in golf tournaments, tennis tournaments and absolutely nascar races. 2010, the federal government worked to close this loophole, so that cigarette manufacturers could no longer sponsor this. but nascar had already moved away from its partnership with r.j. reynolds. >> but my god, how can we ban tobacco companies on the health grounds, but allow the nra to basically say, hey -- >> you know the answer to that question. because the cigarette lobby does not have anywhere near the power that -- >> not anymore. and i think nascar did fine leaving tobacco behind. and it would do fine if it left

the nra behind. >> let's take a quick clip from wayne lapierre from the nra. >> the nra 500 is the latest announcement in the long history of a growing partnership between the nra, speedway motorsports, and the nascar community. nra members and nascar fans love their country and everything that is good and right about america. we salute our flag, volunteer in our churches and communities, cherish our families, and we love racing. >> yep, and you love selling guns, too, mr. lapierre. that's what this is all about. and i don't get it. yes, senator patrick? >> just very quickly. in all serious 'n', if you're going to be upset with anyone about seeing the increase in gun sales, you should be upset with president obama, and joe biden. because the president and vice president have done more to sell guns in this country than the nra. >> let me respond to that. because i've heard this argument.

the fact that the president and vice president, the fact that they're trying to bring in any form of gun control to make america safer, and the fact that the response driven by the nra's cynical marketing in my view, has been a massive surge in sales. not just of any old weapons, but of the specific ar-15 type assault rifle used by adam lanza at sandy hook. i think shams a civilized society. i really do. i find it an astonishing reaction to the worst atrocity of school children in america. you as a state senator, that you honestly believe the answer after an atrocity like that, is to allow the nra to hijack sporting events, full of young impressionable children, find it shameful. i feel angry about it. >> it's not -- you can feel angry. i respect that. but it's not hijacking, it's the first amendment. the bill of rights, we created that because of your country and our country not agreeing on some issues with the king many years ago. but the bill of rights and first

amendment allows the nra to step out and advertise as they wish at this event. i can guarantee you the 190,000 fans who show up at the racetrack, i bet you'd have a hard time having a cnn reporter find more than a dozen who would be against the nra sponsoring that event. we understand responsible gun ownership as part of being an american. nascar is part of being an american. and i'm proud to support both. >> well -- >> is it also -- this is a question -- is it also part of being an american to say, we have to find some way to keep irresponsible people from perpetrating these crimes time after time like the sandy hook shooting? >> i agree. >> senator patrick, i respect your first amendment rights. and i think i've afforded you due respect. and to my other guests here tonight, you know where i stand. it's important to keep the dialogue going. the most important thing in sandy hook, three months later, and it's still the top of the news agenda. gun violence in america is a problem.

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a church protesting on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. the messages that are anti-gay, anti-semitic, pretty much anti-everything. lauren is the author of "ban issue." she said she's no longer welcome because of her beliefs. welcome. >> thank you. >> the western baptist church is a shocking church. i've watched it from afar, with increasing horror, really, about what they get up to in the name of religion. tell me about your experience when you first went in there. how bad was it on the inside? >> on the inside? it's very controlling. they control like literally every aspect of your life. they control what you believe, what you say, what you do, what friends you have.

they say everyone on the outside's evil. and they don't allow any outside influence at all. >> how do they equate being a religious group, with their appalling behavior, picketing funerals of soldiers, the anti-gay outbursts and so on? >> they claim to speak for god. >> simple as that? >> yes. >> all-encompassing excuse? >> it's not a good excuse at all but they do it. it's unfortunate and atrocity the things that they do and say. horrible things they do and say. but yeah, they claim they're speaking for god. >> do they brainwash people like you, young people? >> yes, they did brainwash me. >> did they make you picket and things that you look back and find contemptible? >> they make children believe they're being good christians, to go out and protest all these different things. and it's very hypocritical. they don't even hold themselves

to the high standard that they hold everyone else to. >> of course. this statement is from the church, actually, from your father, steven. you've been effectively disowned by your family, your parents and your siblings. i'll talk about that in a moment. we don't care how many books you write, westboro baptist church doesn't allow fornication. as to the veracity of the book, her parents have read the several excerpts. it's filled with lies. it should be a display on the fiction shelf. >> that's his tactic, manipulation. papal speech. they don't want to hear anything else except their own voice. that's typical. i kind of expected that. >> how do you feel emotionally about losing all contact with your family about this? >> it was very traumatic when it first happened. i wasn't ready for it. i didn't expect it. mostly because of my siblings, who are still stuck there. >> how many of them? >> three. when i left, they were 3, 5 and 16. now it's five years later, so

they're growing older. they have no opportunity to see any type of outside influence, any type of other perspective on god, any other type of knowledge of good life or good people. they have no idea that there is a happiness and life and forgiveness on the outside. >> it's so hateful. >> right. >> there seems to be nothing that constitutes any kind of natural positiveness that you would associated with a religious organization. >> they don't focus on it, that's for sure. and the manipulative tactics they use, they say you'll die, you'll die of a horrible disease, god will kill you, you'll go to hell. everyone out there is just looking out to destroy your soul. and all these tactics that they use. and it works. it works for the children. it works to brainwash. >> how has it affected your personal religious beliefs? >> for me? when i first left, i had no faith. i had no faith in god. i had no faith that i would

survive. that anything successful would come out of my life. they told me everything was doomed to fail. and that i would live a miserable life. and until i was able to meet people, and study on my own and realize, they don't own the scripture. they don't own what god says. and in fact, there are interpretations that are much more loving and forgiving, and that's what i believe. >> are you a baptist? how would you describe your religious conviction? >> i wouldn't say any denomination specifically, but i'm definitely a christian, and i listen to a pastor. >> is there anything christian about the westboro baptist church? >> in the beginning they weren't extreme. they weren't picketing all the things they're picketing now. they're just trying to point out some things that maybe churches aren't understanding. and, you know, they were big against the catholic church and stuff with the scandals going on there. so i thought that they had some

good points. i thought they had -- you know, but they got extreme, and now they judge everyone and condemn everyone. it's really awful. it's just horrible. >> it's a fascinating insight into a very, very uncomfortable situation that goes on down there at westboro baptist church. it's called "ban issued, surviving my years in the westboro baptist church." lauren, thank you so much. >> thank you. ever. nurses are dealing with a wider range of issues. and there are ever-changing regulations. when you see these challenges, do you want to back away or take charge? with a degree in the field of healthcare or nursing from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to advance your career while making a difference in the lives of patients. let's get started at capella.edu.

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this is a huge opportunity and it is being squandered by politics. by people who are more interested in the political victory than they are in doing what is right for the country. it is very frustrating. the hardest thing about losing is watching this critical moment, this golden moment just slip away with politics. >> mitt romney, remember him? he is back at the spot light after months of post election seclusion. sour grapes or does he have a point? joining me is nick christophe.

>> it is sad. >> he is going to get on with his career and come back with this statement that obama is squandering his political capital. is he right? does he have a point? >> i don't see great opportunity to do a deal. i think that is why we have a problem. i mean, i think that there is a certain amount of truth in the argument that president obama could try a little bit harder to charm republicans, to drag them off to camp david. i am a little skeptical that that would work. the notion that there is a deal to be put together i don't see it. >> would it make a difference if mitt romney had been successful? >> you can make the argument that it seems to me that democrats have been a little more reasonable and willing to compromise. in that sense maybe a deal would have been a little workable. basically the two parties here just see the world very differently and i don't see romney getting a deal either.

>> i can't let you go without asking about dennis rodman. she the great unsung deal maker on the international stage? >> i don't think the obama administration is going to appoint him special negotiator for the north korean matter. >> i was talking earlier. i am in two minds about this. what he has done is put north korea all over the news map in america which is not a normalal ooccurrence. he has also had some contact with this weird guy that none of us know anything about. is this a bad thing? >> i think the notion of engaging north korea is really a good thing. i have been there a couple of times. it is the most country in the world. it is useful for americans to go there and hang out with the new dictator there. the problem is you want that

american to raise the issue of prison camps and raise the issue of opening up a little bit. instead dennis rodman gave him a big bear hug. i think maybe south korea should invite rodman to hang out and maybe north korea would be les likely -- >> dennis knows which is which? >> he seemed to be a little confused. north korea is such an isolated country. and it really it -- i remember people telling me there was no crime ever in north korea. so the notion of an american going there wouldn't be bad. >> i'm not that against it. >> i wish it was me. >> you wouldn't get the bear hug. john kerry making his first move as secretary of state sending money to egypt. are these the right move snz. >> he was pushing them hard to work on the economy and get them ready. i'm sure under the table he was

cautioning them to work out an arrangement with the opposition. that kind of advice they need and using that bait is one way to get the message through. morsi is a very stubborn guy. i like the people who did the "harlem shake." it is interesting they would do that and call out morsi in that way. >> egypt is so divided. that is the problem with morsi. instead of reaching out he has been entrenching himself. he should maybe try the harlem shake a little bit himself. >> and the discussion in collaboration with your wife, the half of the sky movement, web based game on facebook. >> we started out writing the book, half the sky about the

need to empower women around the world. people who read the book already agree with the proposition. then we did a pbs documentary. we think the future of advocacy may be gaming. that have where a lot of eye balls are. if you want to preach beyond the choir we thought we would try social gaming. there have been a few social purpose games in the past. this one is on facebook. there has never been a game with as much oomph and engineering input as this one. >> i like this. this is the new technological nick christophe. >> if you care about aids and malaria you have to push through the technology. >> nice seeing you. t to bring . if your tires need to be rotated,

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